The Flip Side with Kuthula Matshazi
Many times we have heard Western diplomats say that "Zimbabweans know what to do" in order for their dire situation to be alleviated. They claim that a prosperous period would follow if Zimbabweans do what they are supposed to do. The phrase "Zimbabweans know what to do" is coded language meaning that they should take out President Robert Mugabe so that the economic sanctions the West imposed on them could be lifted. After the lifting of economic sanctions we are then told that foreign investors would come in droves and this process would unleash prosperity for all Zimbabwens.
The problem with such a view is that the West are telling Zimbabweans who they should choose as their national leaders. It is dreadful to imagine the insults that would follow should say, Zimbabweans tell any one Western country whom they should vote for in their national elections or dipose from office. Why then does the West do it? We do things that we expect others to do them to us. Besides, the West has a tradition of preaching human rights, equality and all sorts of freedoms and yet they try to deny Zimbabwe in exercising their freedoms and consolidating their sovereignty.
Bringing foreign investors in droves also means that local investors are going to be marginalised in participating, owning and actually benefitting form the Zimbabwe economy. Building a national economy is not something we should compromise. Just this weekend, Zambian Vice President Rupiah Banda is reported by that country's Daily Mail newspaper expressing concern that Zambia is still dependent on foreign experts to run its economy four decades after independence.
The phrase "Zimbabweans know what to do" shows how mean the West is. In essence, they are saying (without expressing it) that they shall maintain the economic sanctions no matter the consequences, until Zimbabweans yield to their stated demand.
Over the years, the West has said that they firmly believe that the problems in Zimbabwe would be overcome only if President Mugabe goes. In any case, these are big lies. It is not as simplistic as it seems to be. There are much more broader issues such as the rigged international economic and political systems currently operating in this unipolar world dominated by the United States and its Western allies.
By making these regime change demands in public, the West has been unequivocally stating their expectations from the people of Zimbabwe. The expectations of the West are therefore for Zimbabweans to do precisely that (remove President Mugabe) otherwise the West would worsen their plight.
Each time you hear a Western official saying that "Zimbabweans know what to do" you must cringe. The subtext is coated with violence: We are going to maintain the dilapidating economic sanctions until you take out President Mugabe. The problem with such an approach to politics is that it sets a wrong precedence for future actions of the West to perpetuate such a violent and undemocratic practice. This is not to suggest that they have not been doing it in other places such as Iraq. However, we do not want to set that precedence in Zimbabwe. Where shall we draw the line limiting the exercise of such a thuggish policy? Democracy and not threats should determine the political dispensation. If the opposition claims to be democratic then, they should be lining up with Zimbabweans to repel this undue influence the West wants to impose.
As Zimbabweans we should not relent to such blackmail because it is oppressive, undemocratic and promotes the use of violence in the conduct of our politics. Zimbabweans, like other nations should decide whom they want as their leaders and not some Westen countries.
27 comments:
Why do you write this trash?
First of all will you provide us with a link showing us where you lifted the statement from someone representing the "West" saying "Zimbabweans know what to do".
Also why should we accept your definition of this anonymous quote". What about this quote would imply violence of any kind? Just who is the "West" is it Britain? Is it Canada? Is it France? Please clarify, I seem to recall you were critical of Eric Block for doing the same thing, please be specific. Which country said this quote of your and name the individual who said it.
Still again in typical Kuthula fashion you blame all of our current woes on foreigners, your inability to realize that many of Zimbabwe's problems are self inflicted is laughable, it is increasingly difficult to take any of your outlandish comments seriously.
On one hand you say with foreign investment normal Zimbabweans will not be able to partake in Zimbabwes economy and in the next breath you blame lack of foreign investment in the form of you sanctions as the reason Zimbabwe is not prospering. You can't have it both ways.
After reading your articles over the las couple of months I am confused as to your goal. What do you want to happen in Zimbabwe internally. Do you think we can continue with the status quo. You seem to realize that the west will not change its stance as long as Mugabe is in power so is your only purpose to whine about things you can't change? You obviously are not an MDC supporter which leaves Zanu PF and the same thing we have had for the past 27 years. Do you have any relatives in the government currently? Please answer honestly? Have any of your family members benefited from the recent land redistribution? Are you or have you ever been in the employ of any Zimbabwean governmental agency or branch of the law enforcement sector? Are you related to Mugabe in any way? I ask these questions becomes it is clear that you must have a reason for pushing this propaganda of yours and as most things in Zimbabwe it is probably financially motivated.
My guess is that you post propaganda like this because you are in some way supported by the Zimbabwe goverment or if not refuse to be critical lest you get your family members at home into big trouble. I don't know if you were foolish enough to use your real name but you have posted you picture enough times for someone back home to recognise you quite easily.
This being the case I fell that I understand your position a little better. It all makes sense, what a fool you would have to be to Blast ZPF while you have used your real name here.
Ok ok, go on with your propaganda, maybe you will be granted a farm or mineral concession after the big wigs read your articles shamelessly promoting them.
Kuthula, you must think that I am crazy to have written this vilifying the current situation in Zimbabwe, here is what I said, "Written by Bhekuzulu Khumalo
Tuesday, 03 July 2007
Watching soccer, the statement it's a goal brings supporters to their feet cheering and hugging each other. Why not? After all, their team has scored justifying their passion and support for their team.
The problem comes with half baked revolutionaries and half baked leaders. Why half baked; because they never really understood or desired better conditions for their people. They were always power grabbers, and they are to be found through out Africa and many other parts of the less developed world.
A half baked revolutionary is one who talks a great a story but their actions, because of lack of any convictions of any kind, will not support the story they tell.
Zimbabwe is a country with nearly 4 000% inflation rate, but one will hear the present government of Zimbabwe shouting they have done wonders for the people, or in soccer terms that they have “scored a goal.”
The problem with half baked leaders is that they do not mind. To them a goal is a goal, even if it is an own goal. After scoring an own goal, they will argue eloquently that after all a goal is a goal and their supporters, those who expect to gain something by supporting their corrupt ideals, will also say but it is a goal.
When one attempts to tell them the goal is supposed to be in the other teams net, they will immediately come up with many excuses. Excuses like the other teams defense is too good and the other team keeps moving the goal posts, or even worse, the other team is not giving them a fair chance to score so they need a goal. Even if it is usually an own goal.
Mugabe's argument is that he has scored a goal. It is irrelevant that people are hungry, it is irrelevant that inflation is at 4 000%, after all economics does not make sense to him. So what if the inflation rate is 4 000%, it is irrelevant to the likes of Mugabe and their supporters that now in many areas they have to use firewood instead of electricity. They have scored a goal and they will talk of that goal high and low.
Now the Mugabe government is in fear of its on people, because some people will say if our star striker has gone nuts we must say so. In otherwords you are scoring own goals. This obviously has made Mugabe mad, as after all, he eloquently argues a goal is a goal.
Mugabe instead of murdering and beating up his opponents needs to read a letter written to him by Joshua Nkomo back in June 1983, especially the last paragraph:
“Today our enemies laugh at us. What they see is a divided, confused and frightened people, led by a divided, confused and frightened government…Government which has the love, respect and confidence of the people does not have to use the laws and weapons of colonial regimes to protect itself. The people themselves will protect their government if they have full trust in it. Fear is a weapon of despair, used by those who fear the people. This is the time and opportunity to rebuild trust, find the solution to our problems and defend the country as a united people.”
Only the corrupt who hope to gain from the corrupt will be willing to defend Mugabe. He has weakened Zimbabwe vastly and a divided country is always weaker than a united country.
Mugabe's greed and failures are the sole cause of Zimbabwe's problems, but then those who score own goals will never take the blame as the buck does not stop with them. The buck stops somewhere there in the mystical, somewhere else, but not with them. If a leader can not accept blame for 4 000% inflation, or believes this does not matter, what hope does Zimbabwe have?
The reality is that Zimbabwe is weaker and it has no real economy, except for the lucky 15%. Even Mugabe’s defenders need to eat, hence they travel away from Zimbabwe to countries such as South Africa, Canada, USA, England, Australia and Germany.
Mugabe goes for medical checks in South Africa as he does not trust the medical care in Zimbabwe. Due to the mess he has made, he must now fear his own people; the people he has never done anything for.
The goal has to be in the opposing teams net, not in your own net. There is no better goal than to see a prosperous nation actively seeking knowledge to improve itself and sustain itself and increase its knowledge base and say look at this, we have done this as a people.
Zimbabwe under Mugabe is the antithesis of such a place."
As you know you can find this article on this website, http://www.righthinker.com/content/view/155/ maybe we are wrong, but surely prices rising every two hours means something is wrong in Zimbabwe
Bheku
Like sweet music to my ear Bheku.
Bheku, I will respond to you later. I am tied up now. I do not know you have justify yourself mzawami. Angitsho uyazi ukuthi kangizake ngikuthethesi for holding your views?
Feel free to wite whatever you want. I enjoy unpacking whatever ideas anyone writes. Yah Dave, maybe you can make Bheku your friend seeing that he plays sweet music to your eye. He can tranquilise your hysteria. Maybe you will calm down and stop insulting everyone who does not subscribe to your fanatical views. Thanks Bheku. Keep him hypnotised, maybe we can have less of swearings. Sesitshile. He is of your ilk...the right wingers.
Anyway, I will respond to both of you in due course. But do not feel obliged to justify your position as if its bad to hold your position. I think what is key is to see whether your ideas stand scrutiny.
No dear cousin, not ilk, I am a nationalist, I believe the people can do it, I know they can be great, if greedy people, big governments that feel need to control were out of the way, it is the people that do, the people that invent, never governments, name one government invention, the people do, let the people do.
Bheku
Mfowethu, it is not that, the battle is for us to be great, but for us to be great does not mean destroying anybody else, we all see the world, but we must decide, what is good for us, 4 000% inflation, or free men making their own choices without the government taking the right to make that choice right winger, maybe, but most right wingers believe in government control, to control business from competition, when they say business, they mean existing business, places like Canada, do you see much competition in broadcasting, tellecommunications, no, I do not advocate that, I advocate let all be free, you if you have the means should start a radio station or tv station, because a tv station in private hands with only two l;icenses, that is not freedom of speech, that is two families with freedom of speech. If you want a bank or lending institution if you have the means go ahead, wh a license to select groups, that is called communism with a capitalist face. Why Kuthula I advocate that if you want a Casino, to turn your basement into a casino, please go ahead, why should a few with government connections only get the licenses, you should be allowed even if you have just one slot, compete with them if indeed we are all truly free. Note teh US banned internet gambling to protect established industry players that is disgusting, just that Zimbabwe took that philosophy to the limit and is now having prices rise every two minutes, Join us, join us and let us bring freedom to the world.
Mugabe just did not know how to do it properly he wonders but I am doing the same thing, he didn't get the trick, let us bring freedom to the world, for all including you, can you go and open a television station in Zimbabwe, hmmm Mugabe brought freedom yeah, In Canada you can not but you can find ways to cticize the ruling elite without you know, a good whipping. Come cousin time is running out, we need to work harder to free the world before they swallow it and make slaves of us all, where we will need to have connections just to wake up.
Your Cousin Bheku
"Zimbabwe’s acting president yesterday backed plans by President Robert Mugabe to seize businesses flouting a government directive to halve the prices of goods and services.
“We will not allow sellouts, renegades and money mongers to come here and interfere with our good system of life,” Joseph Msika, who is Mugabe’s deputy, warned foreign investors and local businesses at the funeral of a former Mugabe aide in Harare."
Eish, this Zimbabwean he know what to do - he is him the good system of life.
Eish, sirious we go back to bush and mud hut. We like him very much this good system.
He He he He He He He! Always said you could take a Af out of the bush, but.......
Henry Hazlitt predicted the following on Zimbabwe;
Step 1:
"....we cannot hold the price of any commodity below its market level without in time bringing about two consequences. The first is to increase the demand for that commodity. Because the commodity is cheaper, people are both tempted to buy, and can afford to buy, more of it. The second consequence is to reduce the supply of that commodity. Because people buy more, the accumulated supply is more quickly taken from the shelves of merchants. But in addition to this, production of that commodity is discouraged. Profit margins are reduced or wiped out. The marginal producers are driven out of business. Even the most efficient producers may be called upon to turn out their product at a loss"
Step 2:
"When it becomes obvious that a shortage of some commodity is developing as a result of a price fixed below the market, rich consumers are accused of taking “more than their fair share”; or, if it is a raw material that enters into manufacture, individual firms are accused of “hoarding” it. The government then adopts a set of rules concerning who shall have priority in buying that commodity, or to whom and in what quantities it shall be allocated, or how it shall be rationed."
Step 3:
"But as the government extends this price-fixing backwards, it extends at the same time the consequences that originally drove it to this course. Assuming that it has the courage to fix these costs, and is able to enforce its decisions, then it merely, in turn, creates shortages of the various factors — labor, feedstuffs, wheat, or whatever—that enter into the production of the final commodities. Thus the government is driven to controls in ever-widening circles, and the final consequence will be the same as that of universal price-fixing."
Final step:
"The natural consequence of a thoroughgoing over-all price control which seeks to perpetuate a given historic price level, in brief, must ultimately be a completely regimented economy. Wages would have to be held down as rigidly as prices. Labor would have to be rationed as ruthlessly as raw materials. The end result would be that the government would not only tell each consumer precisely how much of each commodity he could have; it would tell each manufacturer precisely what quantity of each raw material he could have and what quantity of labor. Competitive bidding for workers could no more be tolerated than competitive bidding for materials. The result would be a petrified totalitarian economy, with every business firm and every worker at the mercy of the government, and with a final abandonment of all the traditional liberties we have known. For as Alexander Hamilton pointed out in the Federalist Papers nearly two centuries ago, “A power over a man’s subsistence amounts to a power over his will.”"
The Result:
"These are the consequences of what might be described as perfect,” long-continued, and “nonpolitical” price control. As was so amply demonstrated in one country after another, particularly in Europe during and after World War II, some of the more fantastic errors of the bureaucrats were mitigated by the black market. In some countries the black market kept growing at the expense of the legally recognized fixed-price market until the former became, in effect, the market."
In short, what will happen in Zimbabwe is the following:
1. Shelves will empty.
2. Manufacturing will slow down.
3. Rationing
4. Government tries to control more and more.
5. Completely regimented economy
6. Famine, collapse of country.
Please bear with me. This is a very interesting debate but I am tied up. Sneak preview:
Dave - you have come out quite clearly that you are confused about my position. I will try and make it clear for you...although I have done so 1001 times. But I will not tire.
Bheku - You are wrong to suggest that there is a scheme to concentrate business activities to govt. You mistake yourself deliberately so that your argument can have legs to stand on. The issue is about not a few pwoplw dominating the means of production. While you seem to suggest that you support the mass participation of people in the economy, your model and ideas that inform your position are in total contradiction. Will explain at length when I come back.
Anonymous - It is futile to suggest that Zimbabwe will collapse as dave will tell you. For starters there is very much confusion about economic depression and economic collapse. Theensuing debate will clearly manifest this ...unless people have then gone to further research on the topic or they ave decided to be forthright. We shall not see these steps:
1. Shelves will empty.
2. Manufacturing will slow down.
3. Rationing
4. Government tries to control more and more.
5. Completely regimented economy
6. Famine, collapse of country.
Although things are hard and will become harder. It will hit the bottom and then use the base of the bottom to build going up.
I hope to be back here very, very soon.
Actually let me correct myself, (I was careless with language) while some features of these steps have been seen, e.g. the manufacturing has slowed down, more govt control, etc. the point is that step 6 is not going to happen.
Sorry guys I had typed your responses and my internet browser got corrupted. When I reinstalled a newer version I lost all my data.
Fortunately I have the script, I will have to re-type.
Kuthula, you have yet to answer even 1 of my questions, instead you hide behind a continuous stream of insults and accusations. I quote
"Yah Dave, maybe you can make Bheku your friend seeing that he plays sweet music to your eye. He can tranquilise your hysteria. Maybe you will calm down and stop insulting everyone who does not subscribe to your fanatical views."
I think we can all agree that it is you who is the fanatical supporter of the status quo in Zimbabwe and downplays all calls for any sort of change.
"Dave - you have come out quite clearly that you are confused about my position. I will try and make it clear for you...although I have done so 1001 times. But I will not tire."
You claim that you will clarify your position and then fail to do so. You still have not told us where you lifted this "Zimbabweans know what to do" statement. It's obvious that in your paranoid stupor you made it up.
Lastly with regards to your six points do these signify a depression or collapse? In any case I put it to you that the first 5 have already occurred and I am willing to put money that 6 is not far off if things continue as that are. 5 out of 6 is still a scary situation.
Dave trust me I responded extensively and I was very disappointed that after 2hrs of answering your questions and Bhekuzulu's the response disappeared because of a browser problem on my computer. The previous day I had lost my laptop. I could scan the paper where I made my notes just to show you that I indeed responded, but i have just realised that I cant do so.
I am so busy this time because I am writing a scholarly paper; have the radio rogramme to organise; do not have a computer (where most of my work is based) and this week I worked 7 days. Bear with me.
I do not have the money to have a quick fix to my woes. I can't afford a new computer now - because that is what I need.
I was hoping to scan the document on which I made my responses but I have realised that I cant scan anything because the entire space - the mere 6gigs - of my space from my old computer that I had to retrieve has been taken up by the Windows XP operating system.
Unfortunately you have to be patient. There is nothing I can do now. Do you realise that I did not even write the Flip Side. I have written in long hand but I do not have a wordprocessor to type it...and even the time.
But by midweek I think I would have done something. Don't despair, the written word does not disappear neither do I. Bear with me.
I completely understand take your time.
Hi Dave,
My woes are not going to end any soon but I think you raise very interesting issues that I need to answer. But I will be as brief and as direct as possible.
"...lifted the statement from someone representing the "West" saying "Zimbabweans know what to do". I did not say that Dave. Cut and paste where I said it.
The West is all these countries you mention, mainly industrialised countries. I did not blame ALL our woes on foreigners. That's wrong. For instance, I can also blame those who brought about sanctions on Zimbabwe and those people who price their goods and services based on projected inflation and not current economic sistuation and production inputs.
There is nocontradiction to say that we need foreign investment but not these foreigners to dominate the investment. We give them a maximum of 49 % and we have a minimum of 51% as Zimbabweans.
I think we do not need to "continue with the status quo" (whatever that means) but we need to change the mecrcenary attitude and the economics of the weirdly "invisible hand".
Then you get personal. None of my family has EVER and WILL ever benefit from the land reform because already we have our family home that we bought. None of us has time for farming.
It does not take a person to be related to a government official or to have benefitted to take a position. I am convinved by facts and pragmatism as I have toldyou. And they have rarely let me down. If you take positions based on your relation to govt. officials then dont pass it on to other people.
I like what is currently happening in Zimbabwe because the "invisible hand" is clashing with the "visible hand" (being the govt. representing visible phenomenon - the people. What shape is the "invisible hand" and what does it represent?
I was talking to a SADC economist on my radio programme on Tuesday. He did not indicate that Zimbabwe has collapsed or that it will collapse soo. I still insist on that.
Bhekuzulu,
Its unfortunate that I lost my comprehensive response to you and Dave. But I will ttry to make a few comments so that I do not keep you waiting for long. Its already long enough. My sincere apologies.
You see that you are also not sure about yourself to the extent that you have to write to me asking whether I think you are crazy. No you are not my cousin, but your ideas are.
Unfortunately, I have to say your story is shallow and ideologically confused. You talk about letting people innovate and participate in the economy and yet you forget that Zimbabweans are currently deprived of these means which would enable them to participate in the economy. This is a reality created by colonialism. How can you say that people participate in an economy when they have nothing? Or maybe you seeparticipation as you and your budddies owning most of the economic opportinities and the rest of the people "participating" by being your workers and customers? You are ideologically confused.
No one said government should own businesses. Its your own imagination. I thinkthe problem with you is that you are restricted within an ideolgical structure (the righthinker publication) which does not allow you to see for instance social injustice in areas like Zimbabwe. The participation of the people is ony possible after giving them something. In fact when you say "the people" do you mean the poveo or those with money only? But according to your comments on the post you mean those with resources, the privileged. You do not talkabout empowering mechanisms of the very poor. You do not even talk about the poor. It is charecteristic of right wingers to disregard the poor as non existent whentalking about opportunities. Here's what you said about "the people" participating. It the clearest mention of a category of people who are supposed to be "participating" in the economy. Otherwise you just talk about people participating in the economy without showing us how they would be integrated. "I advocate let all be free, you if you have the means".
I think you could have a better argued article than this vitriolic article you wrote. I guess yu realised its shallowness and hence your guilt that led you to even ask me about your sanity.
I do not talk of the poor nor the rich, i talk of the people, the business people should not have government protection from competition, anybody should be allowed to compete, anybody should be allowed to do, that is all I said, because I know in Zimbabwe I would need a government friend to participate in anything meaningful, I only have enough to purchase or rent one slot machine, I would not be allowed, that is for people with connections, the same is true for most societies, hence the poor like myself must beg, but if we are men we say no that is wron, I have no buddies with influence but please let me be, allow m to use my meagre income to rent one slot machine if I so please, live and let us live. A casino is what I want, what would give me pleasure. I can raise Can$200 to rent a slot machine, what right if we are equal does anybody have to have a license for a slot machine if I am denied we are not equal. First one must understand equality before the law, in anything I have written I have never talked of rich or poor, I have talked mostly about equality before the law, I must be allowed to see if my one slot machine can become ten, maybe a thousand, without kowtowing to anybody, that is if I am free, maybe my one slot machine will fail, but I must be allowed by law to try. No It is people like us who actually talk for the poor, because we understand that the game is not about envying anybody but for people to be allowed to be, I do not envy the rich, but I am disgusted at those who become rich due to government protection and government connections, I do not want those connections being who I am, I understand I do not have such connections and why if I am free should I need them. If I need them that means the system is corrupt where ever one maybe, be it Zimbabwe, or anywhere else, no I do not talk of rich and poor, I talk of freedom for the people.
Bheku
I think it is not correct to say you have to have government connections to do something meanigful in Zimbabwe. Its not always the case, but yes, in some instances, and this trend is common worldwide...its just that such cryonism operates in different ways.
I accept that you "do not talk of the poor nor the rich, i talk of the people" but you do not tell us how the poor - those who do not have any $200 or any $10 to spare will have that enabling factor to participate in the economy. In fact, I think business deserve a certain measure of protection by government. Where in the world have you not seen businesses not protected by the government? However, they should not overly do it.
You must also understand in a way that government intervention happens for many reasons...including good intentions. We, as citizens allow our governments (acting on our behalf to protect the public interest) to intervene in some instances.
You also mentioned your distaste of BIG GOVERNMENT. I guess your comments are still based on that concept. I think you need to understand the Jeffersonian concept of BIG GOVERNMENT. The right has distorted the meaning and form of Big Government to mean a monster government. Big is not necessarily about size... its about power and responsibilities as well. What powers do we want to give our govts? What responsibilities will it assume in terms of making sure that they level off inequalities and also facilitate the growth individuals and institutions. If we restrict their roles in this regard, then they are small governments. If we (I mean citizens) want it to play a big role in caring for the porr and disadvantaged and play a big role in promoting individuals to pursue their selfish interests and level off inequalities, then its a big government. So you need to be careful what exactly you ean by BIG GOVERNMENT.
Big Governemnt indeed is power and responsibilities, not just size, look at the situation in Zimbabwe the small person been crushed, the government banning all meat slaughter except for itself through the CSC, http://www.int.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=1&click_id=68&art_id=nw20070711214948158C224538
What do you mean be selfish, yes I am selfish, I want the best for my people, why, because my people are me, Yes I am selfish, I want the best for my family, why because they are me, yes I am selfish, I want the best for myself, yes I am selfish, I want the best for the world, without the world I could not exist, I am selfish, you are not, there you are.
I am very selfish, that is why I write, for a better world, maybe it might not make me rich, but my selfish self is truly enjoying.
Bheku
Bheku
Dave,
"5 out of 6 is still a scary situation".
Of course it is terrible. Who does not know that the situation is terrible in Zimbabwe. Unlike some, we are not under illusion that the things are not "scary". They are.
And the issue about my picture. I never lose sleep about any enemy or anyone. I could even go as far as giving anyone my itenerary and my home address.
The reason I do not criticise ZPF is because my self declared mandate is to scrutinise the so-called progressive ideas and unpack them to demonstrate that many times these so-called progressives and moderates, in fact, really do not know what they are talking about.
So yah do not expect much criticism focussed on ZPF. Its you the anti-establishment that I want to interogate. Imagine if neoliberalism or your economic concepts and logic were not checked, we would have been led to abyss by some among us who scantly understand these issues and yet they have access to mass communication channels.
But mzala by definition selfishness means that you worry about yourself and yourself alone. That is the problem with you. How can you say "I want the best for my people" when you have plainly acknowledged that you are selfish. Even if we say the selfish you mean is the ultruism you have, you still do not tell us how you are going to put the $10s and the $20s in the hands of those who do not have them. You only assume that the people you are helping have the means to help themselves. Ok granted, you tell us that people who have the means should be allowed to invest. Now please tell us how you expect those people you care about and have nothing are going to participate in the same way as you who has the means.
You said
"There is nocontradiction to say that we need foreign investment but not these foreigners to dominate the investment. We give them a maximum of 49 % and we have a minimum of 51% as Zimbabweans."
So if a firm from Canada wanted to make an investment of 1 Billion $US could Zimbabweans come out with US$ 1 Billion to match??? I don't think so. Could they even come up with $US100 Million? Zimbabweans in your scenario would have to basically get their portion for free and no firm in their right mind is going to make a significant investment only to be told they will not have a controlling interest. Wake up! What makes this even more interesting is that in your post to Bhekuzulu, you say....
"Unfortunately, I have to say your story is shallow and ideologically confused. You talk about letting people innovate and participate in the economy and yet you forget that Zimbabweans are currently deprived of these means which would enable them to participate in the economy. This is a reality created by colonialism. How can you say that people participate in an economy when they have nothing?"
In other words you seem to be fully aware that Zimbabweans can never operate on a 51%:49% investment basis but in one post you suggest it and in another you say it is not possible. You are just all over the map with your opinions.
This next point I will make is very funny and reveals you as a person with selective memory. You said
"...lifted the statement from someone representing the "West" saying "Zimbabweans know what to do". I did not say that Dave. Cut and paste where I said it."
Well here it is in Black and white from the first couple of lines from your article. (The one we are all responding to)
"Many times we have heard Western diplomats say that "Zimbabweans know what to do" in order for their dire situation to be alleviated.
So again I say which western diplomat and please name names and links to sites if possible where we can all read these comments from "western" diplomats.
In response to your SADC economist I can only say that he probably does not live in Zimbabwe and know the true situation. The shelves are currently EMPTY except in Borrowdale where a single item can cost as much as a monthly salary. Even though you claim to realize that the situation in Zimbabwe is bad I don't think you really understand. When were you last in Zimbabwe?
You denial of the collapse of Zimbabwe is nothing more than a wet dream, it may satisfy your desire to believe that Zimbabwe can continue with Mugabe but in truth it is not based in reality.
"So if a firm from Canada wanted to make an investment of 1 Billion $US could Zimbabweans come out with US$ 1 Billion to match???" Yes maybe we could not be able to raise that money but certainly we can work out many available options available to business. One example, we could ask the interested investor to inject finance and then over time as we make profit then we pay them our share of the profit to meet our quota. I mean they are so many options that can be pursued. Dont appeal to simplicity.
"no firm in their right mind is going to make a significant investment only to be told they will not have a controlling interest. Well, they have to choose whether they want to invest or not. No one will be force marching them to a deal.
In no way does my contribution to Bhekuzulu imply that Zimbabwe cannot sustain the 49-51% ratio. I meant that the ordinary poor people are not resource or cash rich. However, programme can be designed, within our means, to help those who want to get into business. It is notorious of you to give my idea that meaning of yours. I do not know where I said that Zimbabwenas can't. Give the full context and not just paraphrase it. You are notorious for changing people's meanings.
Dell said that Zimbabweans know what to do. Rice, Blair and other unnamed western diplomats widely quoted in the opposition media said it. Further promising that if the Zimbabweans do what what they are supposed to be done they will be rewarded with an economic rescue package. As for links, I will supply as I come across them. I willl not forget. Right now I do not have the time because I am on borrowed time on someone's computer.
Well, the economist on my programme does not stay in Zimbabwe but they deal with Zimbabwe on a regular basis much more than you, I suppose.
I was last in Zimbabwe in November 2005 but I talk to people there by phone EVERYDAY, including people like you who give me a different view of issues.
Ha ha ha , what a joke first you deny saying that you said western "people" for lack of a better word uttered this phrase and now you trot out a list of names like Blair and rice without a shred of evidence. You know even if you disagree with all of my positions I am able to back up with I say with direct quotes. If you cannot back up your words they become meaningless. I will be waiting patiently for your links to any article where Rice or Blair or whoever else you can think of uttered these statements. It is an outright LIE.
The economist doesn't live in Zimbabwe but they deal with Zimbabwe??? And I am supposed to take their word as Gospel because they had some unknown dealings with unknown individuals in Zimbabwe? Is this the type of Journalism they are teaching these days? Speak to someone who lives in Zimbabwe.
You are obviously not a businessman, your suggestion that a company would be willing to be paid an equity position from profits is more than infantile. Hey Kuthula, I would like to go to Las Vegas, Why don't you give me the money to Gamble and if I make profits I will pay you back with that. Great deal huh? I would love to see a CEO go to his Board with a proposal to spend a Billion dollars and then say
" Our partners will not be injecting any capital, they wil own 51% and will pay us back from their portion of the profits on the money we invest"
I hope when you have kids you don't teach them your business sense.
And by the way I do not take people words and change the meanings, I merely hold your feet to the fire when you present a silly idea and then you try to change the meaning of what you said.
That's me above, not that it wasn't obvious.
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